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Post by AragornII on Jan 13, 2004 8:21:31 GMT -5
Harad is boring most times I think, but it's a strong race and quite good for beginners in my opinion if gondor isn't rushing you all the time.
Easterlings can be very effective if you can use silence from ovatha on fellowship they're almost useless for a while in this time sending warg riders or wainriders to hit frodo while kurgath ensnares him can be fatal for the good side.
Moria is always a nice race to play, the heroes make a great combination. barg heals, bane takes the damage and gollum runs out to get any running heroes with entangle/bite so your units can surround him and kill him off.
The moria units aren't so great though. most units have quite low hp and all have heavy armor. heavy armor is in it self quite good but since moria has lorien lying to the east and rivendell to the west (elven towers with magic dam... hurts alot against heavy armor) they're almost useless if you rush alone.. still a good moria player can get rivendell without much loss, especially if isengard helps.
Mordor. it's one of the most important races on evil. it's units is the backbone of the army. the trolls can be very efficient in groups (especielly the Olog-Hai trolls) they do a quite high damage and have alot of armor and hp.
The Mordor heroes are not to be triffled with either. Shelob can web any hero that gets to close while some fast orcs quickly surround him and kill him. Shagrat is a great support hero like barg with black water, also he has the ability to summon orcs, thus giving you an advantage (don't use it right b4 or in battle though as you'll need all the mana you can get to heal your heroes).
Mouth is a very nice hero to have. his darkness is a nice spell but what I think most people do wrong when they play mordor is that they take wave as a first skill with mouth. Wave is as Vie has said b4 not a very good skill if you only have 1 of them. his Revive skill however is very nice especielly if you're lucky enough to raise trolls/riders/ents it can quickly tip the scales of a battle if used correctly. mouths aura is also very nice a shame it doesn't stack with murazors aura though.
now don't misunderstand what I just said about wave. it's a great skills in numbers. And if mordor trusts nazgul enough not to loose mouth then letting him control is a very nice tactic, and then wave would be the best 1st skill, or else I prefer revive.
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Post by ViEDarklord on Jan 13, 2004 9:35:47 GMT -5
Aye I agree with aragorn on most of what he said altough with harad it is very important to know when to attack and with how much of an army (don't feed gondor) I'd also advice taking your black numeanorians and some troll men with your heroes to make a strong fighting squad your skelle guy rocks use him (summon by hotkey about 5 times as fast as auto summoning) and also be sure to fortify at the river, it is a place where you can easily get alot of towers up as you have some starting ones there and it is a better defensive point then right south of gondor as some people do
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Post by DeathwingSWE on Jan 14, 2004 2:12:19 GMT -5
Here is a tip for elves. In the beginning get archers out of helms deep as fast as u can and send them to lorien. Next put a worker and cirdan in one group and send them north of rivendell then use shift to put all heroes and demi heroes at riven in the same group and send them to north of riven aswell. Now u should send thandruil to lorien. just select him and click on lorien and he should make it there just fine. Make 2 towers at rivendell with the worker that is there at start and then go with cirdans group to lorien at the north path beware of moria if they should come quick to try to intercept u. Now all heroes should be at lorien. put all in 1 group and leave the worker. also put the demi heroes in the hero group and dont forget the demi hero in the archer group u sent from helms. Use wave with thandruil galadriel and cirdan. the combination sindar valor and mana burn is really good with celeborn on a fleeing hero with low hp cuz sindar valor makes him really fast. chose healing with the rest. I put thandruil galadriel and cirdan in group 2 as a sub group so I can easily wave without tabbing maybe 5 times just to get to galadriel. The archers is really good support vs armies cuz u can put them in front of it and get more time to wave.with wave lvl 3 it wont be necessary^^ Now run to gondor and help gondor or run to dale if needed there. obs all this should be done really fast no sleeping. cirdan and elron lvl 6 skill combine pawns hehe I attacked moria and isen army with my hero group all died before they got close and it looked so beautiful
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Post by ViEDarklord on Jan 14, 2004 7:01:07 GMT -5
Well I personally also start by moving the archers in hd then immediatly send thranduil to lorien if your fast he can be there before moria can be, then move cirdan elrond and glorfindel + arwen together to gondor and send the group of galadriel celeborn and thranduil together with haldir there too (haldirs + 3 devotion aura is good) but I advice you to get to gondor fast because if you assemble in lorien preparing for dale then a fast gondor rush can't be stopped by you. I advice you to send the troops from the grey havens and lorien to past the barrow wights at the start together with arwen and sending them south to gondor (consider going past the spiders and the south crossing as then you can get rohan some creepgold and furthermore dodge sarumans forces) Once thranduil is in lorien send the 3 heroes in lorien south and move towards gondor take haldir along and get him out of the hd archer hotkey (3 normally for me as thranduil celeborn and galadriel start at hotkey 2 and the elrond glorfindel arwen cirdan one are under hotkey 1 ) I prefer combining all elven heroes under one hotkey though as I'm fast enough with tabing to use all waves and being able to use all your forces effectively as elves by having them under hotkeys especially later in the game is quite important.
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Post by narsilLOTR on Jan 14, 2004 7:19:14 GMT -5
well me as gondor guy must say i prefer when elves meet to lorien as then they can save dale easily....i like when elves stay north as there they can get xp from moria spawns in gt and maybe kill it...with dwarfs its np to kill guldur and rhun 2, btw i think elves r more like a second fs with some bases as most of their troops r only worth defending the spawns (which is good 2 as its like books, elves dun interfer so much)...fs is better help 4 gondor in the rush as i can charge troops, with flame and at least one wave with imrahil´...fs can take naz then so lossa can hold! elves wud just get 2many xp and prevent gondor to become fast lvl3 (which makes in unbeatable 4 troops with the 2waves and the flame)...fs alose gets xp there, and while naz and mordor and harad and probably easters are busy to rush and geting defeated by gondor and fs, elves adn dwarfs can take out gt or guldur or at least get lot xp there and destroy towers, over all as guldur has only the few towers (dwarfs food) without troops if they rush gondor....so its easy to kill...if naz leave the rush and runs north top save guzldur, then fs goes there to kill maybe some while gondor goes to take out harad with help of shire...there they get xp and towers can be killed...naz shud go south then again, if good is fast enuf naz gets not enuf xp and good gets alot and naz r always late....
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Post by ViEDarklord on Jan 14, 2004 9:19:01 GMT -5
Well nars if I'm using my troops I can pretty much beat if not atleast hold back the nazgul as elfs which is very valuable, also getting to gondor for the start rush is good as the army is slaughtered by the waves before it does any damage after which you can rush north vs goldur etc
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Post by narsilLOTR on Jan 14, 2004 10:40:54 GMT -5
i didnt say coming to gonodr is bad, just then gondor gets more xp and if it reaches lvl3 fast u wont need to care about it as then troops r no longer a real threat....of course if u come to gondor, it makes it safer, leave it alone is risky, but hey, dare something is clue to win a game^^
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Post by AragornII on Jan 15, 2004 8:51:04 GMT -5
Personally I prefer if elves stay in lorien and helps dale or goes for gt/dol/rhun but when I play elves I almost go to gondor every time because of the xp... Still I think you have a very good point there nars... say if evil attacks gondor and elves + fs + gondor + shire + rohan is there it's a lot of heroes who gets almost no xp... meanwhile dwarves if they get dol can get maybe 2-3 lvls if there is enough units there... so letting elves go to dale and fs to gondor shares the xp better... and I do prefer to have alot of heroes in kinda lowlvl instead of 1-2 highlvls (unless of course they have some damn nice ultimates ) hmm I have never tryed this tactic b4 but perhaps sending cele,gala and thranduil to dale and let glorfindel, elrond, cirdan and arwen stay in shire or maybe lame a bit on dunland could be a good idea since most isen/moria players attack rivendell
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Post by AragornII on Jan 15, 2004 8:58:13 GMT -5
Don't forget that the reason for never trying this is that I think it's kinda stupid to split up heroes.. 3-4 heroes can get killed by naz much easier then 6 can.
Also I have seen alot of players who let nighmare guys stay in morgul and just takes wavers + mura to xp. they may get lvl 3 a bit faster but still an entire lvl 1 fs can easily kill of 5 naz at lvl 3.
Also some fs players puts gandalf or legolas on the mountains by the wargs north of moria. it's very stupid imo since it takes alot longer for them to lvl then if they sticked near to a battle. and at the same time without gandalfs flame or legolas' wave killing of normal units/ heroes can be much harder.
So 1 advice which I always follow myself is NEVER SPLIT UP HEROES!
well of course there is some speciel circumstances... if you're trying to ringdrop, let frodo use ringwalk and go alone through pass of cirith ungol or the black gate. don't send the entire fs in there unless of course you're having a big army to back you up.
Also when you flame with saruman let him alone xp.
But don't split up heroes when you're walking from 1 place to another, especielly not if you're in No-mans-land or enemy territory
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Post by infernal on Jan 15, 2004 9:03:13 GMT -5
I dont play elves much because they are the second best hero squad of good and so I rather pick to play fs cause I'm basically better at them.. the thing with vie's tactic as elves I kinda like though because when I play fs and he plays elves we often meet good ppl (like in a cm) and when you meet very good ppl it's important to kill naz and other heroes, for instance when we're gonna meet west only fs helping gondor wont be enough cause of harad + easter are both great fs killers with stun, silence, ensnare, stunlock etc.. so therefor me and vie usually go together which makes a very good and almost unbeatable combo.. a good trick is also after gondor rush go north to save dale but go south of goldur (note that this is not a good idea if ure alone), if me and vie goes together we can easily take out troops and heroes from behind at dale which cripples for instance naz if they're not smart enough to run to rhun other way.. and there's another thing that I think I will open a thread for.. you'll see..
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Post by narsilLOTR on Jan 15, 2004 18:35:33 GMT -5
Guys i made that rw-guide section now but so i cant take small posts or long conversations...so if wanna be mentioned in the great guide, make clever and complete tipp about one race u feel ur good with!!! aragorn i wud have liked to take ur big collection, but its not about a single nation so i cudnt...btw i quoted ur tower tipps to my gondor guide as i 4got this indeed^^... inf u shud make one 4 easter, drage or erix about dwarfs , ilu make shire!!!!
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Post by BaronDrage on Jan 16, 2004 2:07:03 GMT -5
Some basic things you gotta do with dwarves. When game starts you gotta be really fast. Gloin whose starting position is in rivendell gotta get quickly to erebor. Fastest way is from north, which I use but there is of course moria who can stop him. Try to ask fellow or elves to come and protect him there. And you also should put heroes, demi heroes and two hammerers in same group. Always choose hammer throw for dwarven heroes. At the same time when you are getting gloin from rivendell you have to get troops quickly to erebor from caves. I myself take 3 workers and the troops from there. Always ask for some wood from fellow or shire! Workers should be quick in building towers to dale. First I build two cannon towers, then some farms so ppl cant attack straight to cannons or main. I'ts important to defend dale because if you lose it erebor and thranduils cavern are in serious danger. If they rush into gondor you can go get some creep gold and xp or just attack to dol goldul, goblin town or Easterlings. But prepare that they normally come after rush to dale. If they attack dale just slam and war stomp the troops like a madman! Always watch out nazgul in north if you are adventuring away from friendly towers. They kill your troops easy! Dont put your troops in an open spot. Nazguls are often coming to creep your troops. There are the things that come in mind right now
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Post by ElfMageKoDA on Jan 16, 2004 2:18:09 GMT -5
hers some advice for playing fellow when u play vs vie as naz: RUN! DIE ! QUIT! LEAVE ! NOW!
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Post by infernal on Jan 16, 2004 17:52:00 GMT -5
lol koda, nah I could tell ya what to do as fs and you others plz drop your opinions.. First I select all fs + the 3 eagles into group 1 and send them by south west to Gondor, meanwhile they run I choose their skills, a good thing to do is to list certain heroes in other groups for a better way of micmroeing your heroes, for instance I always put whole groups ctrl 1, gimli ctrl 2 for fast stun of a hero, frodo ctrl 3 for a fast way to light stun, gimli, boro and ara group 4 for a tripple slam which can be used vs troops and heroes, ara and lego ctrl 5 for a nice wave group, gandalf ctrl 6 for fast council and flame, and finally gwahir ctrl 7 for fast pick-ups/drops. Now the main thing to do as fs is to exterminate the nazgul and other enemy heroes, but if you play vs a good naz and he's a better lvl than you (like ure 3 and he's 5) then you stay away from him or else he'll rape ya, dont attack him unless he's crippled (i.e lost a few naz or very injured) or you go with someone like elves or other hero groups. Many fs players die when trying to get kills, dont try to focus too much on getting kills, and dont be too agressive, it might be your doom.
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Post by infernal on Jan 16, 2004 17:57:46 GMT -5
Meanwhile I could also drop my opinion on how to play easter: At start build a castle at rhun and groups all your variags + your 2 easter champs + your 3 heroes into group 1, this group makes a very deadly hero killing squad, select silence with ovatha, ensnare with kurgath and summon wain riders with gwaer, then simply try to assassinate heroes, a good thing to do later on when you get more troops is to list all your 3 heroes into one group (preferely group 1) for easier microeing with them, then group 2 for your variags that are fast and can easily surround ensnared heroes, then group 3 for your wain riders which after a while grows in numbers very fast if you dont lose gwaer. This is an even more deadly way to kill heroes and the good thing about easter is that you can easily take out armies with wain stomp, most might not believe it but a very good easter usually beats a good dwarf 1on1. and try to save your easterling champions, alone they dont do much but in numbers they're great! especially for countering other elite units (i.e clanlords, dunedains etc). Well that's about it now drop you opinion and any questions you may have..
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