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Post by infernal on Jan 23, 2004 11:05:44 GMT -5
Actually koda (as I said before) it's highly effective vs trolls since they are heavy armored and rely a lot on that, do "denethors manace" on a troll group and you can take it out with knights (if you have enough of em of course).
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Post by infernal on Jan 23, 2004 11:08:01 GMT -5
Actually koda as I wrote before I consider it highly effective vs trolls and other highly armored units, excellent vs a group of ologs for instance who just own your regular troops, give em the -armor and they wont be much of a problem.. And ok so I got ilu and narsil so far, btw keep up the good work
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Post by infernal on Jan 23, 2004 11:54:11 GMT -5
oops I said same thing twice^^ well I think you got the meaning..
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Post by FatChicksUnited on Jan 31, 2004 17:44:12 GMT -5
Hi, this is FCU from us-west. I'm the one making the map.. and I'll try to clear stuff up here point by point. 1) I don't hate narsil-lotr, I don't know what gave him that idea . 2) Denethor's ultimate, when used on a Nazgul, doubles the damage units do to it. It makes it a lot easier to kill them with net + knight/dunedain surround. Killing them quickly is important because they can wave out of it once the cooldown is over, and the ultimate helps you. It's also decent for trolls. In 17-D the cooldown will be lowered and the mana cost slightly increased. 3) About evil vs good, neither of the teams is so overpowered that smart play on the other team can't compensate. Good's strength comes in teamwork, since elves + fs + gondor/rohan is such a strong combo. Evil's strength is that it is strong all over the map, while good's strength is mostly near Gondor/Rohan and it is harder to defend the north and the west. I think evil ends up slightly stronger, because it requires much less coordination for evil to win. But overall, a high level fellowship can dominate the game. In the next version, I plan to weaken Gondor and Rohan, as well as fellow (speed), elf (hp), and dwarf (stun), but beef up elf and shire units slightly so they have an easier time fighting off Isen/Moria. There are many other changes, I've posted these on the other RW forum I'm on. 4) As for Naz vs FS, it depends on the skill of the player, lag, and fighting positions. Naz can't fight fellow head-on, but if they pick their fights carefully they can take fellow out.
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Post by ViEDarklord on Feb 1, 2004 4:36:41 GMT -5
Well fcu gandalfs ultimate completely negates the nazguls flying ability and he gives the fellowship the time to get ready and easilly kill the naz if their winged and attack the fs (5 second stun by gandalf get banner up move in frodo 5 more seconds stun stun with gimli and merry do merry song summon with ara ensnare with sam and you have 3 or 4 naz down including mura) the fellowships defense vs the winged naz shouldn't depend on this one skill but it should depend on the fellowship paying attention and being fast and ready at all times (and knowing that running like hell doesn't always work as winged naz can be faster). Also why do naz suddenly gain xp SLOWER then other heroes (like the mouth by a great amount) if before they leveled exactly as fast? reducing the amount of xp the nazgul gets hardly seems fair to me unless you do the same to the fellowship.
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Post by FatChicksUnited on Feb 1, 2004 5:47:27 GMT -5
Well fcu gandalfs ultimate completely negates the nazguls flying ability and he gives the fellowship the time to get ready and easilly kill the naz if their winged and attack the fs (5 second stun by gandalf get banner up move in frodo 5 more seconds stun stun with gimli and merry do merry song summon with ara ensnare with sam and you have 3 or 4 naz down including mura) the fellowships defense vs the winged naz shouldn't depend on this one skill but it should depend on the fellowship paying attention and being fast and ready at all times (and knowing that running like hell doesn't always work as winged naz can be faster). Also why do naz suddenly gain xp SLOWER then other heroes (like the mouth by a great amount) if before they leveled exactly as fast? reducing the amount of xp the nazgul gets hardly seems fair to me unless you do the same to the fellowship. 1) Nazgul bane will be nerfed a bit in the next patch. I will make it less stun time and less AOE damage, so that it can be used offensively versus one naz (big damage and long stun to target naz), or as a defensive skill (smaller damage and lowered stun to the other naz). Currently it is set to 800 dmg and 8 second to one naz, and 500 dmg and 5 second to the other nazguls (not factoring in 3/4 hero damage resist). I'm planning to lower AOE to 200 dmg / 2.0 second stun. Sound better? 2) As for the nazgul gaining exp slower, the difference is 10-20%, and was put into ringwars at 17-B. I have limited map editting skills and capability (since I don't have the real map) so I didn't find the place to change it in time. When I can find it I will put their exp up to normal. The exp nerf was not intentional on my part, so don't bring it up as a balance issue please . Think of it as a bug.
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Post by infernal on Feb 1, 2004 7:47:51 GMT -5
Yeah I know about gandalf's bane, but I dont consider it to be too buff, since as we all know winged nazgul flanking and nuking gandi will end up in his death before he can do his spell (even though vie likes to think otherwise I am fairly sure of this). Though the AoE stun and dmg is too great so you should fix that yeah but maybe not all the way down to 200 dmg/2.0 sec stun, maybe 250/2.5 or 300/3..
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Post by FatChicksUnited on Feb 1, 2004 14:37:04 GMT -5
Yeah I know about gandalf's bane, but I dont consider it to be too buff, since as we all know winged nazgul flanking and nuking gandi will end up in his death before he can do his spell (even though vie likes to think otherwise I am fairly sure of this). Though the AoE stun and dmg is too great so you should fix that yeah but maybe not all the way down to 200 dmg/2.0 sec stun, maybe 250/2.5 or 300/3.. The stun is the big problem, not the damage. Ok, maybe 3.0. Yes, my intention has always been if Gandy is alive the Naz have to be smart about winging up.
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Post by narsilLOTR on Feb 1, 2004 15:53:20 GMT -5
well oki fcu thx^^ anyways i really think u took the thing wrong in some points... 17c has some good ideas...really like voice and so on... well what i didnt like at all are most changes on gondor...i mean all nations in rw have other philosophies like elves shall kill troops/heroes like fellow, gondor isnt a hero killing nation and shudnt be able to do so..though they r great troops support with mass heal, aura, will of men...i think they shud be like in b17 again...denethors new ultimate well u say its good vs naz, but think that naz wudnt come alone but with mass of troops, fellow can care that, gondor must micro troops and defend its spawns...and to kill heavy units its not really necessary to make that spell on them, one flame lvl3 and they lose half hp...imrahils ultimate well if u like its ok...and faramir became an important hero by moving imrahils ultmiate to him though remove the net, i repeat gondor aint a hero killer.
to make it clear, may request is that in rw, not all nations become the same but keep their differences...so i wud like denethor to get his old ultimate back and faramir to lose the net, also increase the flame range (heard it have been decreased, though it wont prevent players from laming as with troops behind he can still lame towers but its far 2 dangerous to use flame in mass laggy defense fight in gondor) ...and yes i agree u need to weaken gondor units a bit, though dont make units weaker, make less units, spawns r 2 big in 17c, take old spawns from b17 and it is ok!!!
last thing, how is the voice and DnD fixed version of b17 going?
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Post by FatChicksUnited on Feb 1, 2004 16:17:21 GMT -5
well oki fcu thx^^ anyways i really think u took the thing wrong in some points... 17c has some good ideas...really like voice and so on... well what i didnt like at all are most changes on gondor...i mean all nations in rw have other philosophies like elves shall kill troops/heroes like fellow, gondor isnt a hero killing nation and shudnt be able to do so..though they r great troops support with mass heal, aura, will of men...i think they shud be like in b17 again...denethors new ultimate well u say its good vs naz, but think that naz wudnt come alone but with mass of troops, fellow can care that, gondor must micro troops and defend its spawns...and to kill heavy units its not really necessary to make that spell on them, one flame lvl3 and they lose half hp...imrahils ultimate well if u like its ok...and faramir became an important hero by moving imrahils ultmiate to him though remove the net, i repeat gondor aint a hero killer. to make it clear, may request is that in rw, not all nations become the same but keep their differences...so i wud like denethor to get his old ultimate back and faramir to lose the net, also increase the flame range (heard it have been decreased, though it wont prevent players from laming as with troops behind he can still lame towers but its far 2 dangerous to use flame in mass laggy defense fight in gondor) ...and yes i agree u need to weaken gondor units a bit, though dont make units weaker, make less units, spawns r 2 big in 17c, take old spawns from b17 and it is ok!!! last thing, how is the voice and DnD fixed version of b17 going? I'm not working on maps for 2 weeks, so that's when it will be done . The voice is fixed, but dnd is not. DND will either hit ALL buildings or NO buildings, I can't specifically exclude spawns. So unless I change dnd to be like 17-C, dnd will still be able to hit spawns. About 17-C and 17-D, I will weaken gondor's spawns but my hero changes will stay. I know some of you don't like my changes. That's why I'm making beta17 fixed .
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Post by infernal on Feb 3, 2004 9:53:26 GMT -5
btw fcu about our west vs euro game, we're not sure we wanna play two games of 17c, cause that's the map you're used to while we hardly play it..
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Post by FatChicksUnited on Feb 3, 2004 13:29:41 GMT -5
btw fcu about our west vs euro game, we're not sure we wanna play two games of 17c, cause that's the map you're used to while we hardly play it.. Hehe, Daunt's the team west captain so you message him sometime. beta17 is a big handicap for me actually, since I'm used to the 17-C hotkeys.
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Post by ViEDarklord on Feb 3, 2004 16:08:39 GMT -5
Well according to daunt evil is the overpowered nation in 17c so how about we are good in 17c and evil in 17? that way we both play our own verson and you get to be the overpowered race in 17c (according to daunt that is) Also fcu do you really think every good hero squad needs to be able to act completely alone? by adding in a net to gondor every team on the good side has a ranged immobilizing hero whereas on the evil team quite alot of teams (mostly the ones in the west being isengard and moria) lack this. And then there is ofcourse the fact that those teams that do have them have only a few (not even mentioning that the nazgul also lack one) a stun or immobilizing skill when well used is the most deadly ability in the game and allows you to temporarily disable a hero after which you can surround and kill him do you really think every good team needs this whereas evil has far fewwer on those teams that have them and has 3 teams lacking them at all? Also I agree that the flame range reduction is good for now to flame you need to be inside tower range making flaming far more dangerous and especially if they know how to use their few stunners (or many stunners on good) flaming can be a deadly business. and yes the reduction of the damage reduction and stun reduction and the fixing of the nazgul xp bug sound good
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Post by narsilLOTR on Feb 4, 2004 10:43:22 GMT -5
well vie u might forget grima that can imobilize heroes thx to sleep and is good killer with poison also...and moria well, maybe not a ranged one, but gollum is only one that can imobilize so long time and who has 2 spells that do that.... btw i changed my mind, right the new denethor ultimate is cool and net is reall pwning....i cud run through a pulk of likew 100 units of easter from harad towers back to gondor thx to faramir and imrahil stomps and the net that made kurgath out of business so i like that alot now^^
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Post by infernal on Feb 7, 2004 6:48:13 GMT -5
Don't forget that grima got stab also that combo pwnz to stab then poison, they're dead within secs
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