the ****ing tab...

[Alatar_theIstar]

i just would like to know will it be possible to somehow fix the tabbing prob without changing the game otherwise too much?
i (and many other guys) just would like to know can we still hope it could be fixed ?

ty...

[DungeonM]

I don't get why you blockheads don't understand, this is Blizzard's fault, there is NO WAY any map maker could fix it.

[FatChicksUnited]

I think it can be fixed using triggers and stub skills.

1) Each nightmare nazgul (or Good team healer) has a useless stub skill each based on a different skill (the more obscure the base skill, the better). The stub skill should have its effects removed (damage set to 0, animations off besides cast animation).

2) Set a trigger to fire when that skill is cast.

3) The trigger action creates an invisible unit who has nightmare. Give the invisible unit the order to cast nightmare on the triggering skill's target.

4) Remove the invisible unit from the game.

Would you mind testing this out, dungeon?

[DungeonM]

You'd run out of dummy abilites to run the trigger spells with. Also might cause a bit of lag. I'm not really in the mood to do trigger spells but I might give it a try.

Edit: Actully with nightmare you'd be better off creating a small island (Like I did in my map) that's out of the way and preplace the dummy casters, make sure they have unlimited mana/locust ability and then you can just order those instead of causing a lil bit of lag with createing/removing temporary dummy casters. Of course you'd have to give nightmare unlimited range and this woudln't work with the nazgul waves, although you could base them sepertly off of the differnt waves, carrion swarm, shockwave, breath of fire (panda) impaling spike, and breath of frost (creep spell I think)

[FatChicksUnited]

DungeonM said:

You'd run out of dummy abilites to run the trigger spells with. Also might cause a bit of lag. I'm not really in the mood to do trigger spells but I might give it a try.

Edit: Actully with nightmare you'd be better off creating a small island (Like I did in my map) that's out of the way and preplace the dummy casters, make sure they have unlimited mana/locust ability and then you can just order those instead of causing a lil bit of lag with createing/removing temporary dummy casters. Of course you'd have to give nightmare unlimited range and this woudln't work with the nazgul waves, although you could base them sepertly off of the differnt waves, carrion swarm, shockwave, breath of fire (panda) impaling spike, and breath of frost (creep spell I think)

Breath of Fire doesn't work, it's bugged and does super damage. Maybe they fixed it this patch, but I"m not sure. There are more than enough unique shockwave/swarm/spike variations though. I had 4 unique waves in 17-D but mmg_god switched them back to pairs to cut down on the wave stacking effect.

The lag caused by creating and removing the unit is miniscule, even less than the lag that would be caused by one country's first castle spawn. If it's a serious concern, yes you could have an island with the casters on it.

As for running out of dummy abilities, I'm sure there are 15-20+ unused abilities for each team, and you only need 4 for nightmare and maybe 10 for heals. If you focus only on team boundaries (e.g. dummy skills are shared across elf/gondor/other races, but not within races) then you need far less, maybe 4 max.

[DungeonM]

If you need ideas for heal you could use rejuvination that lasted 1 second, negative finger of death, holylight, A heal based of item rejuvination that last 1 second and not dispelable by combat.

Some things I found out...

The negative finger of death will be affected by the gameplay constants "spells" damage, it'll do reduced damage to units with hero time armor and hence healing less/more. Heal from the preist should NOT be used, mainly because it is auto cast and because if you target a unit with heal, it will automaticly keep healing it unless it has full hp. As for the testing with nightmare, I'll try it out now.

Edit: Actully about the lag of removing & creating, I'm not so much afraid of that as I'm afriad the trigger won't function, when I use alot of Last Created Unit or Triggering Unit I sometimes think it might end up refering to another unit. It might not, it just seems likely.

[DungeonM]

Ok... this worked...

FrostNova
Events
Unit - A unit Is issued an order targeting an object
Conditions
(Issued order) Equal to (Order(slow))
Actions
Unit - Order Peasant 0000 <gen> to Undead Lich - Frost Nova (Target unit of issued order)


Peasant would of course be your dummy caster, the Isuued order conditon would have to use the string of the dummy ability, look at the ability in the object editor and look at its string, that's what you would replace slow with when you go to do the others.

[Alatar_theIstar]

DungeonM said:

I don't get why you blockheads don't understand, this is Blizzard's fault, there is NO WAY any map maker could fix it.

i could take that as an insult ,
and your posts seems to cross each other quite much, 1st u say "THERE IS NO WAY TO FIX IT", after u say it might work .

if u havent read the forums lately, there's solutions for repairing it now in 5 threads, dunno if none of them could work, that's why im asking this here and that's why i thought ppl could post/gather those ideas here.

so before u calll any1 a blockhead, go look at the mirror

[infernal]

Couldn't you use healing wave as another alternative?

[FatChicksUnited]

I think you have to remember the skill level of nightmare yourself, since I don't know of a way to get the current skill level using a function call.

[DungeonM]

I said it can't be fixed, as in using the same skills, but it's just alot of extra work. Yes, healing wave and now that I hear that negative chain lightning would work as well.

I totally forgot about levels.

I'd have an integer variable keep track of the level of nightmare, use arrays for the four differn't nazgul.

[FatChicksUnited]

DungeonM said:

Ok... this worked...

FrostNova
Events
Unit - A unit Is issued an order targeting an object
Conditions
(Issued order) Equal to (Order(slow))
Actions
Unit - Order Peasant 0000 <gen> to Undead Lich - Frost Nova (Target unit of issued order)


Peasant would of course be your dummy caster, the Isuued order conditon would have to use the string of the dummy ability, look at the ability in the object editor and look at its string, that's what you would replace slow with when you go to do the others.

You probably shouldn't do it with orders. I can order a naz to wave a dude across the map and since your peasant has a limitless range nightmare, he'll do it regardless of my naz's range. A better trigger condition would be "Unit owned by player finishes casting an ability" or one of its family.

[DungeonM]

Yeh, I just remembered that from a Diablo II map...

Anyway using similar triggers shouldn't be much harder... this isn't exact but a guess...

FrostNova
Events
Unit - A unit finishes casting an ability
Conditions
(Ability being cast equal to Slow(The Dummy Spell)
(Owner of (Casting Unit) is (Player 11)
Actions
Unit - Order Peasant 0000 <gen> to Undead Lich - Frost Nova (Target unit of Casting Ability)

[narsilLOTR]

as I said on another thread, its nealy sure this problem WILL be fixed in b19, gez also told me about the thing to make it all triggers like fcu said, which is alot of work imo. he may also try to make all skills being based on different bases, but all that he will do (as he said) only at the very end of his work, cos in time blizzard may fix it by a new patch also....

[Alatar_theIstar]

narsilLOTR said:

as I said on another thread, its nealy sure this problem WILL be fixed in b19, gez also told me about the thing to make it all triggers like fcu said, which is alot of work imo. he may also try to make all skills being based on different bases, but all that he will do (as he said) only at the very end of his work, cos in time blizzard may fix it by a new patch also....

if it will be somehow fixed and rw comes back to normal, i gonna kiss u all for it